Midst Toil And Tribulation – Snippet 17
“Only because he hasn’t heard back from the Raven Lords yet,” Sharleyan replied, and shrugged slightly. “He’s hedging his bets, and you’re right that he’d much rather have a guarantee of free passage from Shairncross and the Council. I think that’s one reason he’d just as soon not start moving towards The Fence until he does hear back from Shairncross, actually. God knows the Raven Lords are a prickly, stubborn bunch, even without the religious aspect of it all! The last thing he’d want would be to look as if he were massing troops on their border to cow them into meeting his demands. Even if the Council agreed to grant him passage, those stiff-necked clansmen would consider it their sacred duty — in more ways than one! — to delay him any way they could if they thought the Council had caved in to threats. And he doesn’t trust Lord Theralt as far as he can spit, either. But he’d be staging through Ahlysberg and its stores magazines no matter what, and I’m sure he’s at least keeping the possibility of taking them all the way from Ahlys Bay to the Republic by sea in the back of his head, if something untoward happens. After all, the thought of marching through Raven’s Land, in the winter, against guerrilla opposition would be enough to give anyone pause! But in the end, he’ll do it anyway, if it comes down to it.”
Cayleb couldn’t quite expunge the doubt from his expression, but Sharleyan only looked back at him with a small, crooked smile.
“There’s not a man alive whose loyalty and judgment I trust more than Ruhsyl Thairis’. It’s obvious he understands how important it is to get troops into Siddarmark as quickly as possible, and knows you and I will never leave his troops hanging at the end of an unsupported supply route. He won’t worry about whether or not we’ll approve or disapprove; he’ll only worry about whether or not it really is the fastest way to get his men where they have to be.”
Cayleb gazed at her for a moment longer, then nodded in acceptance and agreement.
“That still leaves what’s going to be going on in the western Republic before he can possibly get there, though,” he pointed out after a moment.
“All we can do is all we can do,” Merlin said, his tone more composed than he actually felt. “Paitryk Hywyt’s going to land over five thousand Marines in Siddar City next five-day, and Domynyk’s combing out every additional Marine he can find.” He grimaced. “Admittedly, there aren’t as many of them as there were before we transferred so many to the Army after the Corisande campaign, but if he drafts them from every galleon in Home Fleet and scours Helen Island down to the bedrock, he can probably turn up another six thousand or so. And he’s prepared to draft seamen, as well.”
It was Cayleb’s turn to grimace, and Merlin chuckled.
“All right, I’ll admit they’re going to be out of their natural element. But you may have noticed it’s a bit hard to find a coward amongst them even when you need one, and I’ll take our seamen over most people’s trained soldiers any day. Even if we can’t stop Rahnyld dead, I expect we’ll be able to slow him down. And with a little luck, his troops are going to react . . . poorly, shall we say, the first time they meet shrapnel shells.”
“And at least most of the Marines will have Mahndrayns,” Cayleb agreed, his grimace segueing into a thin smile, edged with sad memory, as he used the term. The decision to name the Charisian Empire’s new breech-loading rifles after Urvyn Mahndrayn, the brilliant, murdered naval officer who’d come up with the design, had made itself without anyone quite knowing how. It was as fitting as it was inevitable, though, and even though the new rifles weren’t available in the numbers anyone would really have preferred, they were going to come as a nasty surprise to the Group of Four and their allies.
At the moment, however, the Imperial Charisian Marines actually had more of them than the Army. Virtually all of the conversions had been made here in Charis, in the newly completed Urvyn Mahndrayn Armory Ehdwyrd Howsmyn had constructed at the Delthak Works, his massive foundry complex on the shore of Lake Ithmyn, where the tooling existed and security could be maintained. The Army troops who — hopefully — would soon be marching through Raven’s Land, would be equipped almost exclusively with the old-style muzzleloaders, whereas the Marines (the majority of whom were based either in Old Charis, Tarot, or Emerald) had been close enough to Howsmyn’s facility to be reequipped with Mahndrayns as they left the workshop floor. There were several thousand more of them already crated for shipment, as well, however and Howsmyn’s workers were laboring with fiercely focused energy to convert still more of them. More thousands were leaving the workshop floors as new-build weapons, although that was slower than conversion of existing stocks. Hopefully, by the time Eastshare’s column could reach Iron Cape, enough of the new rifles would have been completed to be shipped to him and exchanged for his muzzleloaders, which could then be returned to Charis and converted in turn.
Or, more probably, simply handed over to the Siddarmarkian Army, whose troopers wouldn’t give a damn that they were “old fashioned.” Any rifle was one hell of a lot better than no rifle, and that was what the vast majority of the Republic’s troops had at the moment. And the sudden appearance of forty or fifty thousand Siddarmarkian riflemen would come as a nasty and unwelcome surprise to Zhasphar Clyntahn.
“I really don’t like doing all our logistic reorganization on the fly this way,” Cayleb’s unhappy tone spoke for all of them. “There’s too much chance we’re going to drop a stitch somewhere, even with Kynt tied into the com net. Simply running into more bad weather could throw everything out of gear at exactly the wrong moment.”
“That’s been true of everything we’ve done so far, love,” Sharleyan pointed out.
“Not to this extent,” Cayleb replied with an off-center grin. “I realize I have a reputation for impetuosity, but I actually have tried to make sure I had — What was that expression of yours, Merlin? ‘All my pigs and chickens in a row,’ was it? — before I leapt headlong into yet another reckless adventure.”
“I used the phrase once, Cayleb,” Merlin said with a certain asperity. “One time. It just slipped out that single time, and I’ve never used it again.”
“You can’t fool me, Merlin. It’s not just ‘a phrase’ at all, is it? Not really. It’s a cliché — that’s what it is. One that no one on Safehold ever heard of until you resurrected it out of the ash heap of history, where any decent soul would’ve left it.”
“I’m not the one using it; you are!” Merlin shot back while Staynair and Sharleyan looked at each other in amusement.
“But only because you inserted that accursed string of words into my innocent and untrammeled brain. It’s like . . . like one of those childhood songs you can’t get out of your mind. Like that stupid jingle you taught me back in the carefree days of my bachelorhood, the one about bottles of beer on the wall. I’m doomed — doomed, I tell you! Within five-days, a month at the outside, that same fatal phrase will slip out of my mouth in a formal audience, and everyone will think I coined it. Every hanger-on, every flatterer and sycophant, will start using it when he thinks I’ll hear about it. Before you know it, it’ll creep into common usage throughout the entire Empire, and future historians will blame it on me, Merlin — not you, where the guilt truly belongs — when it’s wormed its way inextricably into the very sinews of our language.” The emperor shook his head sadly. “To think that I’ll be remembered for that rather than for my prowess in battle.”
“Given the penalties for regicide, I feel very fortunate to be here on the island instead of there in Tellesberg at this moment,” Merlin said meditatively, and Cayleb laughed. Then the emperor’s expression sobered once more.
“Even if it does sound incredibly silly, the concept’s still valid,” he said. “And I’d feel a lot better if our chickens really were neatly in line behind our pigs before we started on all this.”
“We all would, Cayleb,” Staynair said serenely. “On the other hand, Sharley does have a point. This isn’t going to be any more of a scramble than the Armageddon Reef campaign was, and you’re in a much stronger relative position than you were then. Not to mention having acquired quite a lot of well-trained subordinates since then, all of whom know exactly what you and Sharley are going to expect them to do. It’s not given to mortal men and women to simply command success with the wave of a hand or a magic wand, and it’s always possible we simply aren’t going to be able to get enough troops into Siddarmark quickly enough to stem the tide. But if we don’t, it won’t be because we didn’t try, and that’s what God expects of us.” The archbishop smiled slightly. “He’s done pretty well by us so far, and I don’t see any reason to expect Him to do any differently now.”
“Neither do I, Maikel,” Merlin said from Helen Island. “You do remember that other cliché, though, don’t you? The one about God helping those who help themselves?”
“Indeed I do.”
“Then in that case, I think Cayleb and Sharleyan and I would like you to do the heavy lifting with God while we see about doing as much of that more mundane helping as we can.”
“I think that’s an entirely equitable division of labor, Merlin,” Staynair said with another, broader smile. “In fact, I’ve already started.”
Alan, independence/sovereignty likely does exist in the Safehold dictionary *but* only in terms of secular rulers.
Sure every secular ruler is under the authority of the Church *but* many are also under the authority of other secular rulers.
@47 JeffM, obtuse…I see.
Is it obtuse to recognize the logistical issues involved with supporting a very small force being incorporated in a large and foreign army? No one in Siddermark has a clue what it takes to support the new RBL armed troops. Will the rounds be shipped in all the way from Charis or will they be assembled by the 5,000 troopers? Will the Siddermarkian Quarter Masters know what elements of that ammunition or maintainence supplies are essential to mainatin that fighting body?
Cayleb has already said that logistical support on the Charisian side is harum-scarum. He is drawing marines to man these RBL forces. Marines who relay on the navy to provide their logistical support. Sending penny packets in means that there is a risk that some key skill set will be missing. Will Cayleb assume that the essential skill sets will be available to support en entirely new weapons system in the front lines? Will he assume that such a small force cobbled together from multiple ships will have enough internal resources to make do at the front well enough to maintain their potential supremacy? Will he assume that 5,000 or even 11,000 soldiers are easy to keep track of and provision using a foreign distribution system totally unfamiliar with the needs of that force?
I suppose that I was indeed obtuse and should have assumed that all these valid logistical issues would be yada-yada’d away by the author. It’ll be simple. We will see DW send in the marines and all these niggling issues just never manifest. Perhaps that’ll happen. If you read the snippet again, however, you will see that these types of logistical issues weigh quite heavily on Cayleb’s mind. So, I think DW won’t yada-yada these issues away. He’ll wait, if he can, until sufficient support forces are available before he sends his men to the sharp end of a very dangerous spear.
I suppose my logic was a tad obtuse after all. Instead of assuming people would recognize the nature of the conversation going in the snippet, I should have laid out my logic from square one. My appologies.
Well, Peter, my apologies as well. However, I’m not sure that you would have preferred the original term I used rather than “obtuse”. Heaven forbid that I even appear to be “flaming” someone.
No, you didn’t need to outline your reasoning. It was quite apparent.
Let’s think logically here. It would be blatantly stup–er, IRRESPONSIBLE for Cayleb to send a relatively small contingent of Marines on their way from their home base in CHARIS (or Tarot or Emerald) without support already in accompaniment. Those logistics are ALREADY IN PLACE for those units, at the bases where they are CURRENTLY assigned, all that they have to do is send them along with them. And there is shipping available to do that.
What you are misconstruing is Cayleb’s concern over the logistics of the much LARGER force, which entails coordination coming from several different origination points for over ten times the force, 50-65K Army troops and not having problems arise either in the short or intermediate term. In other words, you are applying Argument B to Object A, rather than Object B where it belongs.
After all, the ASSIGNED logistics support for that much larger force is ALSO already in place. In CHISHOLM. Unlike those Marines from Charis (or Tarot, or Emerald, wherever they were based) the entire premise of Cayleb’s concern is that UNLIKE CHARIS, the hub of the entire Charisian Merchant Marine, there is NOT enough shipping available to send those ICA detachment’s toys (and support train) along with them from the far side of CHISHOLM.
I will also add that the apparent fact that these 5K Marines were not simply stripped from ships, and sent aboard transports with only the packs on their backs, is also readily apparent. After all, a human (most especially, trained Marines) being is much more mobile than, say, a cask of preserved dragon. All that they would have had to do is trot from wherever they were, run aboard a transport, set sail–and the Marines would have arrived in Siddar well BEFORE the first food shipments. Instead, well AFTER relief shipments have arrived, they will land in a five-day.
Good heavens. Sending 5000 Marines without their own food and support to a place where their already is a food shortage would not only have been blatantly stupid–but CRIMINALLY stupid. When have you ever goptten that impression of Cayleb and Sharleyan? The same goes for shipping them to Siddar City just to sit around on their thumbs. Not going to happen! All that they would be doing is eating up those valuable supplies, while serving no purpose at all. They may as well be sitting at home in Charis (or Tarot or Emerald). At least there they wouldn’t be consuming, eating up finite, invaluable supplies.
Here, this is my complaint. Both about this site, and DW’s forums. It is clear to me that there are people who are absolutely determined not only to speculate, but to take the bit in their teeth and rtun down blind alleys when they have misinterpreted the author’s intent. And somehow, after scurrying down that blind alley, they manage to slip through another niche into yet another blind alley, all the while getting further and further away from the author’s intent. I mean, come on! At many points it’s clear that the author, who finally intervenes and puts a stop to arrant, pointless nonsense (but is too polite to say so) is scratching his head himself.
Seriously, If you wanna speculate, fine! That’s the fun of it! Please, though, do me a favor. PLEASE! At least have the decency and consideration to FRAME it as such. Don’t speak in absolutes! All that you have to do is type out your speculations as “I think that…”, or, “In my opinion…” rather than blatantly saying something like (just as one example, not to single anyone out), “Cayleb will be/is in South Siddar, and is going to…” It makes my head ache. First off, there is no textev of any such thing. The snippets haven’t proceeded that far, it’s clear that he and Sharley are both sitting right in Tellesburg. It makes me crazy! I think, “What the heck??? Did I miss a teaser somewhere???” Then I waste a whole bunch of time poring through every little thread.
There. I’m done venting. Please, feel free to crucify me now!
Sorry. I could have done this better, been more tactful, but it’s a bad day, and I feel horrible. Still, I’m taking it out on some of you–by being HONEST. Now then…flame away!
@52 Gee, pull out the notes on Guadalcanal, the situations faced by both sides due to logistics. There were all sorts of events that had to be solved creatively.
@53 This is all speculation unless the poster is Drak. No matter how I phrase things, it is still a guess. I haven’t read the full book. I have read 2-3 out of sequence snippets and have tried not bring that knowledge here.
If you have issues with how I post please state it as you have. I don’t appreciate ad hominim and do not engaged in it. If that is now acceptible behavior here, I think I would enjoy going elsewhere. I have noticed a few of the older posters no longer participating. Add one more to that list.
Speaking of logistical problems, what about the number of flintlocks (rifled or therewise) available to the CoGA?
We know that the CoGA was splitting manufacturing between cannon and muskets, and that their naval forces were equipped with muskets. I would think that those would be stripped from the navy for the armies. Nevertheless, the number of muskets available to the armies initially will be substantially less than the number of men available for those armies. So what will the CoGA do? Will they think that the Charisians will not have reinforced the Siddarmarkians, and send all their forces forward, or will they only send their musket-armed men forward? If their initial planning is based on Siddarmark’s 5,000 allowed rifles, and the actual number of rifles is 4 to 10 times that, some breech loaders, then what? Could we see a scenario where the initial formations are ripped up, and then the Go4 has to wait for their manufacturing to catch up before they can continue?
— Bob G
#56 Interesting thought– How many musketless troops ARE they sending into the warzone?
@56 There are four major countries participating in the CoGA arms program: Desnarian Empire, Dohlar, Harchong Empire, and Temple Lands. The arms program contained two parts, naval and land.
Each country ‘produced’ 80 Galleons, with 50 cannon and 120 muskets each (numbers are approximates). Or 9600 muskets for each country for the naval portion of the build. The land protion has had as much time/effort, so I expect each country to field 10,000 musketeers, with supporting infantry from existing troop types (matchlock, crossbow, pike, sword, etc.), and cavalry for the summer campaign.
I would also expect an additional 10-20,000 musketeers available to each country by the end of summer in their home country.
This does not take into account the contingents of any other nation/country.
P.S. My estimates are likely off.
@58 I agree with your numbers for the required ships. Taking it from there, IIRC, Foxfire 5 indicated that a craftsman could make a Kentucky long rifle in about a week. The process, and this really assumes I recall correctly, is that a bundle of rods were heated together, pounded, and then drilled and rifled – all by hand. There are presumably more craftsmen on the mainland, _but_ Charis has water-powered furnaces, hammers, and drills. Further, a lot of mainland craftsmen don’t have significant experience in making rifles. I imagine Charis is 3x-10x more efficient on a per-person basis.
I don’t think the Go4 changed the priority from previous book. They spent a year accumulating the ships, cannot, and muskets. I suspect they have made a lot fewer muskets than you do, which is why I think the naval muskets were taken for army.
— Bob G
@59 Bob G: I assume you mean the naval muskets/cannon (artillery) they COULD get back (G). IIRC a good portion of the NoG ran into the ICN and got trashed (and again at Illyria).
/Rob
55. Pete Z: Just to be fair, I have to admit, I’m not a fan of the “take my ball and go home at the first sign of adversity” school It’s too much like pouting to me. And, just a suggestion, you might want to use the phrase “personal attacks”, unless you care to look up the actual spelling of “ad hominem”. I’ve found that proper spelling adds something to your credibility. Did you have to look up the meaning? I did! :)
Dunno why anyone would want to go “somewhere else”, especially if someone might disagree with them there as well!
@58. Do we know if all of those different artisans producing muskets are doing crazy things like “uniform bore size”? I seem to remember that’s something that Charis’ old cannons had problems with. It would be funny to find that they all didn’t ahve standard ammunition.