Midst Toil And Tribulation – Snippet 20
Irys smiled faintly.
“I’m sure it did . . . sometimes, My Lady. But as you say, not always.”
“No,” Mairah agreed. “The thing is, though,” she turned her head to look into Irys’ hazel eyes with a gentle smile of her own, “that until she did try talking to someone about it, she could never really know whether this was one of the times it would help.”
Their eyes held for a moment, and then Mairah’s smile faded.
“You’re still worried about how she felt about her father, Your Highness.” She shook her head ever so slightly when Irys opened her mouth. “Of course you are.” She shrugged, never looking away from the princess. “When there’s been so much hatred for so long, so much bloodshed — when two families have stored up so many mutual wrongs — it has to be that way. And, if I’m going to be honest, I’d have to admit I believe Sharley — Her Majesty, I mean — had much more cause to hate your father than he ever had to hate her. For that matter, I won’t pretend that if your father had come into her power, she wouldn’t have found it very, very difficult not to take his head and call it justice, not vengeance.”
“And would you have agreed with her, My Lady?” Irys asked, so quietly her voice was scarcely audible through the sounds of wind and wave.
“I’m a Chisholmian, Your Highness. King Sailys was my King, not just my cousin’s friend. And I was over twenty when he died. I knew him — knew him personally, not just as a king — as well as how he came to be where he was and die the way he did. So, yes.” She met Irys’ gaze very levelly. “Yes, I would’ve called it justice. Perhaps it would’ve been vengeance, as well, but it would’ve been just, wouldn’t it?”
Their eyes held for a long, still moment, and then Irys’ lips trembled and her gaze fell.
“Sometimes justice seems to solve so very little,” she half-whispered, and Mairah touched her shoulder gently. She looked up again, and the older woman’s eyes were as gentle as her touch had been.
“Sometimes justice solves nothing at all,” she said. “And vengeance solves even less. Have you heard how Sharleyan addressed your brother’s subjects after one of them attempted to assassinate her on her very throne?”
“No.” Irys shook her head, her folded hands tightening on one another. She hadn’t learned of that assassination attempt until after she’d reached Destiny, and a part of her dreaded the way that experience must have hardened Sharleyan Ahrmahk’s hatred for the princedom of her birth.
“I wasn’t there myself,” Mairah said, “but the clerks took down a transcript of every one of her sessions sitting in judgment . . . including that one. She’d just pardoned four convicted traitors, and when she looked at the body of the man who’d tried to kill her, she said ‘Surely God weeps to see such violence loosed among His children.’ And then she said ‘Despite anything the Group of Four may say, God does not call us to exult in the blood and agony of our enemies!'”
“She did?” Irys’ eyes widened, and Mairah nodded.
“She did. And she meant it. Empress Sharleyan is a good hater, Your Highness, but it’s hard to make her hate in the first place. If that’s what you truly want, then you harm someone she loves or victimize the weak, but I doubt you’ll enjoy the experience in the end. She hated your father because he’d hurt someone she loved and because — much as I realize you loved him — he victimized a great many people weaker than he was. But she hated him, and because of what he’d done, not you or your brother, and she isn’t one to visit vengeance upon someone’s children or family. Neither is Emperor Cayleb — if for no other reason, because neither of them would stoop so low as to take vengeance upon an innocent for someone else’s crime. But it goes deeper than that, as well, especially with Sharleyan.”
“Why?” Irys asked simply, and Mairah smiled sadly.
“Because you and she are so much alike. Because she lost her father early, and she knows the pain that brings. Because she knows who was truly behind his murder, and who planned your brother’s murder, as well, and she is a good hater when it comes to the viciousness of a man who could kill a little boy out of cold, calculating ambition. Because people have tried to murder Cayleb, the man she loves, and she’s seen the cost of that, as well. And because people’ve tried to murder her, not just once, but four times — twice in the last five years, plus the two assassination attempts her Guard defeated before she was fifteen years old. Your Highness, her own uncle tried to have her murdered — or, at least, aided those who wanted her dead, whether that was his own intention or not — and the only reason I’m alive, most probably, is because her uncle was also my cousin’s friend and he ‘arranged’ the riding accident that left me with a broken leg when Sharleyan made her trip to Saint Agtha’s. But the stories you may’ve heard about Saint Agtha’s — the stories about how she picked up her dead armsmen’s muskets and killed at least a dozen of the assassins herself . . . they’re true, Your Highness. She knows what you’ve felt about your father, and she knows how terrified you’ve been, how desperate to protect your brother. She’s felt those things herself, and I promise you this — no matter what may lie between the House of Daykyn and the House of Tayt or the House of Ahrmahk, my Empress will never allow harm to come to you or to Daivyn. If the need were to arise, she would pick up a musket — or a rock, if that was the only weapon she could find — and defend both of you just as she and her armsmen defended one another at Saint Agtha’s. She couldn’t do anything else and still be who she is.”
Irys gazed at her, tasting the iron certainty in her words. Lady Hanth might be mistaken; she wasn’t lying, and Irys smiled a bit tremulously as she reached up to cover the hand on her shoulder with her own palm. She started to say something, but then she stopped, gave her head a little shake, and inhaled deeply. She squeezed the older woman’s hand, and then turned back to gaze at the passing fortress once more.
“I wonder if Daivyn’s finished pestering Lieutenant Aplyn-Ahrmahk out of all patience yet?” she said instead.
Good calming truthful explanation!
/Rob
Got to be difficult when ones world view is turned upside down. And the folks doing the turning have reason to lie (not that they are, mind you), and Irys knows it.
Let’s not forget, Irys has the example of Narmahn (who actually tried to have Cayleb assassinated) being given honorable surrender under incredibly generous terms. Gorjah should have lost his head for breaking his treaty with Charis in OAR, but he was also allowed to swear fealty and keep his position as head of Tarot, although in as a subordinate state in the EoC. Every island nation who has surrendered to Charis – or united with it in the case of Chisholm, received terms much more generous than they had dared to imagine.
Coris himself noted that their majesties’ conditions to rescue him and the royal kids were more generous than he’d expected. Abraims Zhevrons, laying out the conditions which Daivyn and Irys would be expected to accept said: “On the other hand, within the conditions I’ve already described, Their Majesties’ decision stands, whether she and Daivyn are ever prepared to accept an accommodation with the Charisian Crown or not.â€
“And, to be honest, those conditions are more generous than I would have anticipated,†Coris admitted. “I’m beginning to suspect that honesty, compassion, and fairness are much more dangerous weapons than most of us duplicitous diplomats have begun to realize even now. Probably because until Emperor Cayleb and Empress Sharleyan came along, we’d had so little exposure to them. It’s going to take a while for us to develop proper immunity to them.â€
How much bargaining Irys tries to do once she (and most importantly to HER) her baby brother Daivyn are accepted with compassion and their safety assured will be interesting to see. I expect she’ll be offered a seat on the regency council, and Daivyn WILL swear fealty.
Let’s be logical about this, the kid is at best 9 Earth-years old. His greatest hero is Merlin, and Lt. Aplyn-Ahrmahk is practically a big brother to him – and incidentally saved his life. Just HOW much resistance is he going to have once Shaleyan gives him a big hug and Merlin spends a bit more time cementing himself as a bigger than life protector? Irys isn’t going to fight too much – perhaps over how Corisande will be incorporated into the EoC, and when they’ll get representation in parliament, but the uniform system of laws and taxes stuff is already hammered in stone.
The people she once most bitterly hated are going to turn out to be the most understanding, forthright, and forgiving monarchs she’s ever met, or could possibly have imagined. And they ALL hate that monster in Zion who tried to murder their kingdom, and who murdered Irys’ daddy and older brother. This isn’t about vengeance, it’s about justice, and Clytahn will face it one day at the end of a noose, a bullet, or a bayonet.
Let’s just hope he ensures the Proscriptions slip beyond recovery before that day arrives… Bleek!
I don’t buy it. The EoC will probably survive the war with the church, sure… but I don’t buy it surviving much beyond that. And the way DW is playing this, that war literally can’t last more than a couple more books. The group of 4 is making too many enemies and Charis has was too many advantages and they now have a mainland realm on their side, which is obviously going to be made to survive so that they have a foothold on the continent, ultimately that means the war’s already won.
But there’s no way I buy the EoC surviving after the current conflict. I just don’t buy it. History has shown that it’s nearly impossible to weld that many and that widely separated cultural groups into a single polity of any kind. The USA is not a workable comparison either. It MAY survive for a while because of political chicanery due to the secret threat of the Gbaba, but it’s a stretch…
@3 well put, although nothing ever goes quite that smoothly when DW is writing.
@4 I think it will survive as long as Cayleb and/or Sharleyan are around. Longer if Daivyn marries Cayleb’s sister, although she’s several years older than him. Irys marrying Hector might also have a stabilizing effect.
As long as they are well protected, business is good, and the trains run on time, and the government isn’t onerous, I don’t see rebellion in the mix. A petition from the population, maybe. It also depends on whether the relationship with the CoGA is strained or not.
The biggest factor might be the technology changes, and no idea on the impact of that, if (hah) Charis keeps innovating.
— Bob G
In comparison to all our known human governments, there has never been one with a continuing, stabilizing factor of an undying advisor/tutor such as Merlin. So its conceivable that Safehold will eventually have a world government led by Charis.
@4 The war can last way more than 4 books! We’re talking about the 40-year war here: Every time the catholic church tries to tighten their grip on their allies and exterminate more enemies, they alienate more and more people. The alienated become de facto allies, and the war expands. The books so far have had the war start with one country, and grow to 6, (charis, chisholm, emerald, corisande, tarot, siddemark). We have a ways to go.
The first battle starts in Feb 892, and HFAF ends in Feb 896. So we’ve gone all of 4 years… 36 to go.
The key brings up an interesting question: what will happen there:
1) EoC use the key to destroy the temple
2) The key never gets used and the archangels return in year 1000 (104 years to go)
3) some AI in the temple wakes the archangels before that. This is not likely to happen unless EoC start using electricity on a large scale, and that’s probably not straightforward either.
Robby, that’s assuming Merlin stays alive or sane. [Wink]
Seriously, IMO there won’t be a world government on Safehold until the Gbaba becomes common knowledge and it won’t be “led” by Charis.
First, until the Gbaba becomes common knowledge there’s no reason for the other nations to become part of the Charis “World Empire” and I doubt that Merlin would support *forcing* the other nations to be part of it.
Second, stagnation (technological or otherwise) is always a problem with “universal governments” and I doubt that Merlin could prevent it from happening.
So IMO what may happen after the “shooting war” with the Safehold Church ends will be nations that while generally at peace will compete with other nations.
Such competition will do more to advance technology on Safehold than a World Government.
Once the Gbaba is commonly known, there will be reason to create some sort of World Government but it likely won’t be led by Charis.
MTO, the “year 1000” will be 1000 years after the creation. The current Safehold years are from the end of the “War against Shan-wei”. Merlin was thinking that they have some twenty years to go before the “archangels” wake.
I think there will be an attempt on Daivyn’s life, but I no longer think Mairah is a conduit for loyalist communications. If there is such an attempt, I have no idea whether it will be successful.
As to the number of books remaining, a millennium of entrenched, and reinforced, church and social doctrine will be a lot to overcome. The Harchong Empire has yet to be touched, for example. This could go on for quite some time.
All the preceding comments are so very cogent–except they all neglect one factor. Once the Go4 is gone and the church is reformed (The Reformed Church of Safehold) what will its role be? Remember that David Weber is a man of religion and he has the opportunity here to give full rein to that particular horse. I predict that the new church will be a unifying force that will spread the truth about Safehold, the Gbaba and the phoney prophets, angels and the function of the old church in keeping Safehold dumb and happy.
Love this forum!
r
IMO there won’t be “One Church” on Safehold.
There will always be “differences” of opinion on the “right way” and the Church of Charis attitude will be “if you don’t agree with us, start your own Church”.
Based on what DW has let slip so far, I think that Drak is correct that there will not be “one church” on Safehold. There will be a multiplicity of religions, beliefs, and non-beliefs (agnosticism and atheism). Religion will not unify Safehold, but how religion develops after the CoGA is exposed for the fraud that it is will be very interesting indeed. High-church Wiccans? A cult of Merlin? Who knows?
Not sure why there won’t be one church. Everyone now alive on Safehold was raised in one church. Is it likely that anyone will resurrect any Old Earth religions? Why would they? With the rapid spread of technology far beyond what is available to us, why have much in the way of religion at all?
Does anyone think you could pull the “God contacted me” routine with SNARCS watching them all the time?
Graft Merlin’s level of tech on the last two thousand years of existence on this planet and tell me how many current religions would exist today.
Damon, there will likely be several Churches because there will be different views on what the Writ means.
The Church of Charis (except for those who know the true history of Safehold) basically holds the same general beliefs as the Main Church.
For that matter, once the true history of mankind is commonly known on Safehold why won’t somebody “resurrect” Old Earth religions?
They may likely think that God wants them to go back to the “true faith” that the “Archangels” used to create the false religion.
As for the “God contacted me” routine, why would God make a “big show of it”?
Now, if you want to believe that “religion will die as science increases”, people have been “forecasting” the death of religion for some time now.
It hasn’t happened yet and I don’t believe it will happen.
Oh, by the way, Nimue was a Christian so I doubt that David Weber believes that it will happen.
Not so much that “religion will die as science increases” so much as some modern religions are at great odds with each other as to which one is the “only true one”. If someone had been there to record the death of Jesus it would clear up any number current day controversies. If someone had recorded his sermons it would accomplish the same. The same for Mohammed. The same for Joseph Smith.
If two religions disagree about the facts, and you have a recording of the facts, one of them is wrong then isn’t it?
Why would a native of Safehold, whose entire religious life has been shaped by the CoGA, want to resurrect Zen? They have no cultural background to do so. The vast majority of real people believe in the religion that they were raised to believe. Could you believe in Isis now, given you personal biography? Why would you?
Damon.
First, the Current Church likely will sub-divide due to differences in interpretations of the Writ just as Christianity has sub-divided. No amount of “Merlin watching the world” will prevent that.
Second, nobody (but you) are talking about completely different religions *developing* on Safehold. So “Merlin watching the world” isn’t a factor there.
Third, people have and do change from the religion that they were raised to believe so I see no reason to think that people on Safehold won’t change religions.
Fourth, religion is, in part, a search for meaning.
As more people learn about the true history of Safehold, they will be seeking for meaning outside the Writ.
Since we know that Nimue has records of old Earth Religions, they will likely seek out those records and may find meaning in those Religions.
Zen Buddhism may be one of those Religions, Christianity may be one of those religion and so forth.
For that matter, considering the interest some current day people have in neo-paganism, I won’t be surprised if Isis gains a following on Safehold. [Wink]
Damon,
Current research also suggests that we humans ARE prone to religion, that is, religion is part of humanity’s genetic disposition, and we will, therefore, be religious in some form, just because of who we are. Some primatologists suggest that evidence exists that chimpanzees and apes have a primitive form of religion, or at least spirituality, as well. Thus, I am confident that some form of religion will continue after the CoGA falls.
I was joking when I suggested @13 a cult of Merlin might arise, but on reflection, I would not be surprised at all if some few people make an object of cult adoration out of Merlin, or at least make Merlin a saint.
Hi Drak,
Never thought this story would generate a religious discussion. Who knew?
One-I suppose subdivision is possible, although subdiving a religion that is verifiabily a made up creation will make that process interesting.
Two-I took Mr. Woodman’s comment about “multiplicity of religions” and Wiccans as the first mention of other religions. Maybe it was a leap of faith on my part.
Three-yes people do change religions. What I said is that vast majority don’t. I believe that is true.
Four-Couldn’t agree more. I like the Church of Charis head’s interpretation of the situation that even if it’s a made up religion it can be the basis for belief and right action.
(Eye twitch cause I wink funny)
@4. You are correct. The EoC won’t last any longer than it takes Merlin and Co to reconstitute the Terran Federation. ;)
@4 Why can’t the EOC survive beyond the war? How long did the Roman Empire survive? Admittedly, the use their legions to crush any rebellions but it did survive. And you have the examples of the Chinese Empires. China in itself has more cultures and languages than I can count. You can say that each of the main dialects in China constitute a separate culture.
A world government would be a bad thing for the purposes of encouraging innovation.
Historically bureaucracies have opposed novel developments as it requires them to change their power structures to cope.
The Catholic Church did it, the Chinese mandarins did it and the Islamic imams did it. Technological development requires a level of creative chaos that sends bureaucrats round the twist as their procedures can’t cope with rapid change.
The industrial revolution in Europe hinged on the collapse of the Catholic Church in the face of first the reformation (caused by the technological change caused by the wide adoption of the printing press) and then the French revolution and the stripping of the Church of its secular powers (and its army). (Britain got started earlier by the over throw of the crown with Charles the first and second, it took the bureaucrats until the start of the first world war to get the rate of change stifled, and then got unzipped by the first and second world wars).
The industrial and scientific revolutions in China and the Islamic empire collapsed under the attacks of the all-powerful bureaucrats on the innovators and other who thought outside the square.
Communist countries stumble with innovation for the same reason but are a little schizophrenic as the philosophy requires secular and industrial development. (And the US Congress and various state governments also have issues with the loss of control that comes with the accepting free transfer of information that drives innovation, liberty (note; not libertarianism) drives innovation.)
@21 I suppose it’s a philosophical point, I don’t buy Merlin/Nimue Helping to support a “Roman Empire” style EoC. I expect the three main polities Charis, Chisholm, and Emerald may be able to make a real go of it as a nation a la the UK. But the best they will be able to do long term is set up some sort of empire with significantly reduced control over the outlying territories. If they don’t do that they’ll be spending all their time putting down rebellions and I just don’t see that being Merlin’s bag at all, in fact I think he’d be liable to jump ship and help break up an EoC that actually became detrimental to his plans to stop the Gbaba.
@7 I don’t buy it. Have you seen the rate of innovation? There’s no way the mainland empires can keep up, ultimately, when they’re always playing tech catch-up. They’re going to get slaughtered. Enough armies get massacred and the group of 4’s heads will roll without the aid of the EoC. That will not take much more than 2 more books, after this one, without some MAJOR plot twist. That doesn’t mean the series would end either. The ultimate issue is NOT about this little war it’s about the Gbaba. Besides DW seems to be setting up the next big problem with the potential return of the archangels.
General comments…
I don’t buy resurrecting too many old Earth religions either, DW might do it… but it seems hoaky… More likely people will go and learn about the old religions and either reform, or form a new one or three, based on bits and pieces of the old and the current church.
And yeah… probably no world government of any sort any time soon… definitely not until the space age/digital era style techs come rolling around anyway (and maybe not then).
I personally don’t think a world government would work as a dynamic organisation except as a type of united nations to deal with an external threat (which was the reason for the formation of ours in the first place, to deal with the Fascists in Europe and Japan) or internal abuse of power (for which a culture of intervention to swat unacceptable behaviour then backing out would be required, but when those abusing power vote on the intervention, this is rather hard to organise until you manage to isolate all your potential supporters by your behaviour and are small enough to be swat able – see Serbia…). Bureaucracies like to micro manage (it’s the nature of the beast) and a hard tendency to suppress.
A mandarin style static culture opposed to innovations will also work and this is the historic Chinese and Islamic model.
Large polities require large bureaucracies since human limitations prevent management of more than 20 people by a single manager (bigger organisations have larger management overhead, the Harchong empire probably parallels the Chinese empire in this respect and a good kick would have it falling over under its own dead weight). The communications delays in a preindustrial society compounds this, requiring significant autonomy to be devolved to lower levels due to poor communications, this leads to a small step to open revolt (most usually armed) against top down control (again look at Chinese, European, and even American history in this regard).
China for example is arguably too large to be effectively centrally managed even now but politically incapable of being broken up into more effective smaller co-operative regional groupings.
Internally it’s better to have smaller polities to deal with local issues (can you imagine getting the UN to organise garbage collection?). Larger regional groups work for larger regional problems.
Allan G, actually the Catholic Church was an influence for *innovation* within Europe.
First, it really never had the power to stop innovation (ie it never had the power of the Safehold Church).
Second, it provided cultural unitity for Europe inspite of the political disunity.
What drove innovation in Europe was that there was a common Language (Latin) along with competing nations.
Educated people knew Latin and commonly communicated with others elsewhere in Europe.
Ideas spread and if one nation tried to suppress an idea, it couldn’t prevent other nations from using that idea.
Just remember that the Catholic Church was still “strong” when the printing press was invented and spread over Europe.
@25 – Drak
Actually, for anyone who wants to read a bit of well-written non-fiction, Thomas E. Woods’ book How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization is an excellent and interesting look at the role of the Catholic Church in building, shaping, and saving Western Civilization. Even if you don’t agree with all of his premises and conclusions (and I don’t), his writing makes the study highly accessible to most reasonably-well-educated-and-thoughtful readers and his footnotes provide access to the relevant literature.
Yes, the Catholic Church was strong at the time of the invention of the printing press, but the effects of wide dissemination of information shattered its unquestioning hold on the minds of Europe.
Without the printing press the teachings of Luther for example would have been a small regional event capable of being suppressed, as Wickliffe and Hus were. Routine mass executions by church authorities (including the various branches of the Inquisition) continued in order to suppress dissenting thought continued until they were finally reined in by the secular authorities in the 1700’s. The Church retained a significant armed military wing well into the 1800’s in Italy.
The survival of English Protestantism was a real thorn in the side of the monolithic church structure and if the Spanish had succeeded in suppressing it with the Armada, a lot of the subsequent changes in Europe would have been far more hesitantly expressed. (Queen Mary’s brand of inquisition was bad enough).
Napoleon finally shattered its hold on the politics of Europe building on the changes from the French revolution (it took another century for its more malign philosophies to play out with the Holocaust building from the institutional anti-Semitism supported by some sections of the church (including the Lutheran’s as well)).
As for the church supporting innovation, I suspect Galileo and Copernicus may have some commentary on that. The Church is a very conservative organisation with a strong aversion to change, unless it is challenged in an irrefutable measure it will not shift. This is a common thread in all authoritarian systems, change brings disorder and shaking foundations rattles the men at the top the worst. The late Roman Empire was the same in rejecting advanced technology (such a wider introduction of water wheels) since it would render some workers redundant and this would lead to unrest.
That said, the church’s monasteries were responsible for the preservation of a lot of knowledge (in some cases too much, like the incorrect teachings on the workings of the universe and a mistaken view of the functions of the human body) but the church leadership was strongly opposed to the dissemination of this outside the bounds of the church’s institutions and hence control. This continued, in England for example, with the Universities being teachers of clergy not of lay people until the 1800’s. The lack of publications in the vernacular arguably delayed the further spread of knowledge and technology. (Galileo’s publications in Italian had a significantly higher impact than his publications in Latin, and really peeved the Inquisition – the most reactionary organ of the Catholic Church).
(Its not just the Catholic church who as doe this either – its a common thread of using religion to gain personal power that Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban also hooked into, using fear of change or of outsiders to control a population).
Getting back to world government, I forsee a “Commonwealth” type arrangement in the EOC’s future. Local government having police and coast guard forces, while the Empire controls the actual Army and Navy. Each nation (conquered, occupied or joined) has a viceroy (like Chermyn) able to command local Imperial forces, but who stays out of local affairs, while keeping a close eye on them.
The favored trade status within the Commonwealth, ability to keep technological advances within the Army and Navy, and ability to focus imperial forces on a problem would make the EOC hard to beat.
This is sort of off topic from all the comments on religion, but as I was reading @28 RichardK’s comment “keep technological advances within the Army and Navy…†it suddenly came to me that with Charis about to field accurate and long-range artillery they are going to need a reliable means of spotting targets especially when the battle field becomes obscure from all the gun smoke. Thus, observation balloons came to mind. Are there or will there be proscriptions against humans ‘flying’? The balloons can simply be filled with hot air as hydrogen likely isn’t something Safeholdians know about just yet. Observation balloons strategically located about the frontiers of Siddermark and territories the EOC controls near enemy lands would also give Calab’s field generals the ability to obtain timely intel on enemy positions and strength without having Merlin or other Sejins needing to be everywhere and ‘dropping’ hints. But, their primary function and usefulness would be spotting for artillery.
About flying – with hot air balloons and gliders could argue that they don’t violate the proscriptions cause they are using air / wind to power them. On the other hand remember that people said about powered flight that “if God meant men to fly he would’ve given us wings”. I agree that over time the COG will continue to splinter into liberal and conservative interpretations of the writ. Beyond the variety of Christianity we have from the Amish to Non-denominational groups. I think that there might be some resurection of the old religions when people learn that the writ is based upon them – you know got back to the roots type of thing which is why wicca was resurrected and the new age religions spring from.
@28. Why a commonwealth? Chisholm and Emerald are already fully integrated into the Empire, Zebediah is firmly in hand, and Corisande is about to be. The only real wild card is Tarot, which wasn’t exactly “conquered”, and stands the advantage of being the Empire’s doorway to the mainland. I don’t think they are going anywhere either, especially as more and more people at upper levels of every country become privy to the “Secret”. How long for Gorjah or Daivyn? Seriously?
As far as those of you concerned about “technological innovation”, I believe that you are thinking too conventionally. Early on, Nimue/Merlin noted that had the original plan been followed, i.e., lie low for a few hundred years, then begin rebuilding, that they could have made the advances necessary to have a technological superiority over the Gbaba by now. After blowing five hundred years or so, I’m not sure that everyone will feel that they have time for a…leisurely approach.
Besides, at the very least Charis will continually be injecting technological advances that their competitors will be forced to either adopt or lose ground to. Guess which that will be?
No, no, having read The General series long ago, I can certainly see Cayleb and Sharleyan’s descendants taking a more…creative approach. They really cannot afford the medieval mindset. Perhaps an appeal to anyone who can have a flexible mind. Seal off the borders (after all Charis controls the seas), then have recruiting stations for “Anyone who wishes to leave mundane behind…”. Families who leave for Charis get the advanced knowledge, lifespan, and etc. Eventually the stick-in-the-muds come to occupy less and less ground, and then will die off, leaving everyone advanced, and focused upon the effort to advance.
Just a thought. I just don’t think that any advance in technology will be a gradual approach. They cannot afford it. Let alone the thought of leaving so many people without even a semblance of “modern” medicine. Like the Admiral missing a leg. OR certain innovators missing fingers. Can you really see Cayleb or Sharleyan standing for that?
Anyway, just a thought…
Nimue is not a chemist, a physicist, or a medical doctor. These skills all have to be learned and relearned, experienced, and taught by others. Just reading the text is not enough. Years and lives will go by before most of what is known in archive is able to be produced.
Commonwealth: a) depends on local government. Unless radio is implimented soon, travel time will break up the EOC unless it stays at war.
b) has common legal system. Commerce is able to gain stability. Populace is able to move to where the jobs are with confidence.
c) has outlets for active (ambitious) people. Most people want to be left alone by the government. We still have Amish in todays internet world.
I think a Commonweath type of government would help Merlin reach his goals quickly with the least social pain.
@32 No argument that it will take time to gain experience using the new tech OWL makes available. I wonder how the introduction of NEATs again will affect that – I believe one learns both skills and knowledge when learning using a NEAT.
a) I expect the ICN to introduce large steamships within the next few years. The transit time between Charis and Chisolm is about to be cut drastically. The current constitution allows 60 days per year just to ferry the Imperial family back and forth. A 20+ mph steamship can easily cut that to less than 20 days, perhaps 15. When the longest voyage between islands in the empire: Tarot – Corisande drops to less than a month, keeping the EoC together will be much less of a problem.
Safehold may not be able to develop radio and survive, since it might lead the Gbaba straight to them. This is an area where jumping straight to heavily shielded Terran Federation communications is the way to go.
b) As each nation has been absorbed into the EoC, one of the first items of business has been to establish consistent weights, laws, etc. Already done!
c) Check! The EoC will do just fine as is, although I worry about the royal family together on the same ship twice a year.
The EoC can survive, although it’s parliament will have to be expanded as each nation is fully incorporated. The power of the crown will diminish with time, and they’ll eventually end up with something much like Manticore in the Honorverse.
Which noble will become the equivalent of North Hollow? Bleek!