Midst Toil And Tribulation – Snippet 16
Cayleb grunted unhappily. The instinctive understanding of the huge logistical advantages conferred by oceanic transport was bred into the blood and bone of any Charisian monarch. The notion of sending an army or large amounts of freight overland instead of by sea was as foreign and unnatural to them as trying to breathe water, and all of those Ahrmahk instincts were insisting that it had to make far more sense to send any expeditionary force from Chisholm to Siddarmark aboard ship. They were persistent and clamorous, those instincts, and usually they would have been right. Unfortunately, the situation wasn’t exactly “usual.”
A well conditioned infantry army could make perhaps forty miles a day marching overland, assuming it didn’t have to stop for niggling little details like, oh, foraging for food or allowing its draft animals to graze. Of course, grazing in Chisholm or Raven’s Land in winter wouldn’t have been very practical, even if it wouldn’t have subtracted several hours a day from the army’s marching time. Since grazing wouldn’t be practical, an army with an overland supply route could count on adding its draft animals’ starvation to all of the other minor inconveniences it confronted. A transport galleon, on the other hand, under average conditions, could make between two hundred and three hundred miles a day, up to seven times the distance that army could cover on its own feet, and without losing the dragons and horses and mules its transport would depend upon once it reached its objective to starvation and sickness.
But Eastshare had very few transports available in Chisholm. In fact, he couldn’t have squeezed more than a very few thousand men aboard the ships he had, and he couldn’t put even that many of them aboard ship until he collected those ships in one spot. And that spot would have to be on the east coast of Chisholm, so even after he put the troops aboard, he’d still be over twelve thousand miles — and forty-seven days — from Siddar City.
He could probably commandeer a few more transports from Corisande, but not very many. Certainly not enough to make any real difference. The only place he could get the amounts of troop lift he required would be to request it from Old Charis, and even with the most favorable winds imaginable, it would take a dispatch vessel over a month to reach Tellesberg from Maikelberg. Even after it did, it would take Cayleb and Sharleyan several five-days just to divert ships from the Siddarmarkian relief efforts and get them gathered together. Given how dire conditions in the Republic were, they couldn’t possibly justify pulling galleons out of the relief convoys until they’d been officially asked for, since there was no way even monarchs with their reputation for foresight could know Eastshare was going to need them. And, on top of all that, it would take at least a month and a half — more probably two months — for those galleons to reach Chisholm once they’d been collected and ordered to sail.
Those unpalatable facts had left Eastshare and Green Valley with very few options for moving troops rapidly into Siddarmark, and it was the duke, not the baron, who’d come up with the most radical solution. Green Valley had been prepared to suggest it if necessary, but that hadn’t been necessary, which said some truly remarkable things about Eastshare’s mental flexibility.
He didn’t have the troop lift to move a worthwhile number of men, but he did have enough sealift to move quite a lot of supplies, especially food and fodder, and those two commodities were the Achilles heel of pre-industrial armies. An army which had to forage for food — and fodder — as it went (even assuming the season and agricultural productivity made that possible) did well to make ten miles a day, and it wreaked havoc on any civilian population in its path simply because it stripped the land bare as it went. But without that requirement, and with the ability to feed draft animals on grain and prepared fodder rather than requiring them to graze on grass, an army was limited only by the hours of daylight it had in which to march and the quality of the roads before it.
So Eastshare had sent off his dispatches to Tellesberg and begun concentrating the garrisons stationed throughout western Chisholm on Ahlysberg, the military city which had been built to support The Fence, the fortified frontier between the Western Crown Demesne and Raven’s Land. It was the westernmost of Chisholm’s true seaports, and its magazines and storehouses were well stocked with food, boots, winter clothing, and food. The galleons he’d been able to lay hands on in Cherayth and Port Royal were already loading additional food and supplies in Chisholm’s eastern ports; within no more than another five-day or so, they’d be setting sail for Ahlys Bay. And from there, theoretically, at least, they would be available to leapfrog along the southern coast of Raven’s Land, supplying a fast-moving army as it marched west overland.
The Chisholmian Royal Army had always emphasized physical conditioning and training in every sort of weather. It wasn’t unusual for an Army battalion to find itself ordered, with no previous warning , to fall in with full field packs and two days’ iron rations for a sixty mile march through February snows — or, conversely, June heat — and the Imperial Charisian Army hadn’t changed in that respect. Assuming the Raven Lords were as amenable as usual to subsidies (it would never do to call them “bribes”), and that Bishop Trahvys Shulmyn couldn’t convince them otherwise, Eastshare and Green Valley could theoretically have marched clear to Iron Cape, probably making good their forty miles per day, despite the narrow, snowy roads. Of course, it would have taken them several months, given the distances involved, but it was only forty days’ march from The Fence to the city of Marisahl (the nearest thing the Raven Lords had to a capital), on Ramsgate Bay, while another twenty days’ march would take them to Malphyra Bay, eight hundred miles farther west. That was still a long way from the Republic, but the voyage time from Tellesberg to Marisahl was less than half that of the time from Tellesberg to Maikelberg, and from Marisahl to Rollings Province by sea was only fifteen days. From Malphyra to Rollings was under ten days.
So if Eastshare was truly prepared to put his troops into motion as soon as possible, without direct orders from Sharleyan and Cayleb, and when he had no way to be certain his request for transports to be dispatched to Raven’s Land despite winter storms and ice floes, would be honored by the monarchs with whom he hadn’t even discussed moving troops to invade a sovereign realm in the middle of winter, he could cut a minimum of two months from the transit loop. He’d have enough shipping to keep his men supplied as they marched along the coastal roads, but he wouldn’t have enough troop lift to move them across the Passage of Storms. On the other hand, by reducing the total length of the sea passage by how far west his men could come on their own feet, he’d effectively reduce the number of transports needed for the voyage simply because they could make the round trip with half his men, then return for the other half, far more quickly than they could make the voyage clear from Chisholm.
If Eastshare was willing to take that gamble, the Imperial Charisian Army could have upwards of sixty thousand men — possibly as many as seventy-five thousand — in Siddarmark long before Clyntahn or Maigwair would have believed was possible. Perhaps not soon enough to stymie the general assault everyone knew was coming, but certainly earlier than anyone on the other side could have anticipated.
“Ruhsyl will do it,” Sharleyan said almost serenely, her eyes as confident as Cayleb’s had been when he was analyzing Rahnyld of Dohlar’s motives and actions.
“Are you sure?” Cayleb’s tone wasn’t a challenge, only a question. “I know he’s sent his message to Mairisahl and he’s already got the first divisions on the march, but he hasn’t said a word to any of his generals about moving anywhere beyond Ahlysberg. I’d say it’s pretty clear he’s still thinking at least as much in terms of making the entire trip by sea.”
I do hate the logistical nightmare that I see coming in the dividing ones force in the face the enemy. There are too many holes in this plan long before they even get to the 2 stage landing in a presumably hostile land. Somewhere in this line of lift and supply there is going to be a major SNAFU that will make the invasion of Corisande look like an afternoon tea party beset by a few droplets of rain!
He’s gathering the ICA of western Chisholm in Ahlysnerg and has notified the Raven Lands of his intent to pass through their sovereign lands. But IMO they are kinda glossing over that ICA forces in eastern Chisholm (the majority AFAIK) are two mountain ranges and the width of continental Chisholm from Ahlysberg (AFAIK they are currently centered on Maikelberg).
(See: http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Safehold/338/1 )
And Superman didn’t even have to nudge him to take that leap!!
Isn’t it great to have competant forward-looking subordinates that operate stupendously even when NOT in the “inner circle” of knowledge!!!!
And don’t forget the Emerald component of the ICA under (?sp)Hannibal Baytes(?sp) and the ICMC contingents in Zebediah and Corisande (as well as the militias there under the new Ruler of Zebediah (ICMC General) and the Regents of Corisande). AFAIK the Old Charis component of the ICA is mostly in Maikelberg (with Superman and his boss) or scattered packets of ex-CRM (Charisian Royal Marines) throughout the EoC.
/Rob
Ahlysberg not Ahlysnerg!!
60,000-70,000 men from the Empire months early can be a nasty suprise. Can they keep their presence secret until they actually get into a serious battle? MWW talks about suprise being that one sees only what one expects-not whats really there. Expecting a force of Siddarmark mixed pike and musket and finding the Empire army only after the engagement begins could be someones worst nightmare.
And from the map (http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Safehold/338/1 ) Raven’s Land has a whole lot of partially-terraformed lands (the lighter the green on the map the more habital/terraformed the terrain is/was when the map was updated about the area (which will vary wildly IMO)).
So IMO the three cities they are planning to possibly ship from constitute the bulk of the RavenLords’ lands.
Even thinking of it like medieval/early-modern Ireland (where you can always bribe someone to screw their neighbor); swift passage of a foreign army that the CHURCH (that the RavenLords pay lip service to) has declared full of heretics and fair-game for ANY atrocity does not seem readily indicated.
Hey, and now we have some harder numbers on ICA availability (60-70 K) for immediate deployment to Siddarmark!!
/Rob
40 miles a day????? That’s above 60 km. With full kit and equipment (presumably including artillery, forges and powder sipplies)? For several month on end, day in, day out, without break? with some bad terrain in?
Even if food is no problem and logistics doesn’t impede, I have trouble with that one.
Can someone please explain to me what I am missing here?
@3 ships are to supply the army as it moves west, so ideally, with the Raven Lords allowing transit, the army just has to keep their feet moving…
@3: Many Roman infantry units could force march 50 miles or more in a single day (though they would have to rest the next day) in full gear – armor, javelins, shields, helmets, everything. This includes spending two hours at the end of the day building field fortifications.
It sounds like the ICA would not have to march with the bulk of its supplies (see the snippet above), only a basic load, as the ships would be carrying the heavy stuff that normally would require wagons (which actually slow an infantry formation down – it wasn’t until the advent of the internal combustion engine and the automobile that supply wagons could keep up with marching infantry). Also, musketeers and riflemen (at least as far as we’ve seen) don’t wear the heavy (in terms of weight, not protection) scale, ring or segmented armors (let alone the weighty shields, all-enclosing helmets, etc.) that the Romans used so they would be able to move faster for longer.
The snippet seems to explain it pretty adequately, and it’s not unrealistic. Comparatively equipped but not as well trained or conditioned troops in the US Civil War who didn’t have to forage not only could but *did* march 30-40 miles or more per day when their supplies could keep up with them – and not just once but day after day. See: Union troops under General Meade. In fact, if they *hadn’t* been able to keep up that pace, they would not have been able to get to Gettysburg in time to reinforce Buford’s troops; the Union troops at Gettysburg would have been overwhelmed and overrun on the second day after the Confederates’ reinforcements had arrived (in a pre-planned maneuver and at a much slower miles-marched-per-day rate) – and therefore would have lost.
@3&4 40 miles a day seems to be a bit much. 2 1/2 miles/hour average means 16 hours/day marching. Bosting the average to 3 miles/hour still comes out to more than 13 hours, in the winter when the period of daylight is less than the period of darkness… The numbers don’t seem to add up even with a 26 1/2 hour day, unless they are going to be marching much faster than deems reasonable to me.
@3 For a well trained army, a force marsh of 40 miles per day is possible. Of course said army is in no condition to fight.
If you want to have the army in fighting condition 25 miles per day is probably the best.
Humans are build for long, endless marches.
Some tribes in afrika hunt like this: Just walking after the prey for days until it drops dead of exhaustion.
And according to the infodump: ( http://forums.davidweber.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2963&hilit=130%2C000%2C000 ) the combined population of the EoC is less even than that of Delferahk (barely more than Sodar or Silkiah). And the troop strengths are 1.341M (EoC/Stohnar; ~37% militia) vs 2.834M (CoGA; ~16.7% militia).
/Rob
@5 – Doubting Thomas
40 miles/day seems a bit much to me also for a winter march. OTOH, General Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson’s infantry could move so fast (even under combat conditions) during the ACW that they became known as Jackson’s “foot cavalry”. In the Shenandoah Valley campaign during May 1862, Jackson’s infantry moved up to 30 miles/day while engaged in combat.
I just thought of something: we know Safehold is a smaller planet than Earth and IIRC a mile is determined (As Earth’s Nautical mile is) as approximately 1 minute of arc of latitude on any meridian (or 1 minute of arc of longitude at the equator). So 40 Safehold miles might not be as far as we think. I’ve forgotten the conversion to Earth statute miles, nautical miles, and/or Kilometers (if I ever knew it).
@9 Robert H. Woodman: And those were 30+ statute miles (1 NM = 1.508 statute miles = 1.852 KM)
/Rob
The “March of the Ten Thousand” in Greek times averaged 25 miles a day on the days they marched–766 miles in 34 marching days. But they marched 1 day and recovered two for a total of 107 days. Herodotus records marches by Greek hoplites of 50 miles per day for short periods (Sparta to Attica in 3 days–150 miles in all). Alexander covered in the range of 10-15 miles per day for extended periods at a cost of having his soldiers carry very heavy individual loads. The Romans marched at 100 steps per minute–2.75 mph–for 7 hours a day covering 15-20 miles.
While thre are many recorded 40 mile marches in history for short period of time, 40 miles/day for an extended period seems tough even with light loads for the individual soldiers and constant supply.
@2 The secrecy will not help if the spy in the Charisian Embassy reports the troop movements to the Temple.
“Can someone please explain to me what I am missing here?”
This is a SciFi/AltHist book. 40 miles per day might be needed to make the timing hang together for some other part of the plot.
As a former EWO, I find that easier to believe then an invisible recon skimmer.
Lighten up. Plenty of history books out there if you want accuracy over a story line.
Or you can buy Medieval War II and find out for yourself what happens when you march your troops into the ground.
‘Horse and Musket’ would work too.
Yes, 40 mi a day is a big, unlikely number. However, what if there is enough ship transport to carry everything of any size or difficulty to pack, all but the lightest of tenting, could outpace the army and set up supply drops along the way or the prepositioned supply dumps are set up?
DW isn’t saying the ICA doesn’t have enough shipping to do that. They don’t have enough to lift EVERYTHING in one go. But, man is 40 mi moving it.
The road system could also be much better than a contemporary one in real history would be.
Suspend disbelief, I guess.
@14…
It is easier to assume/suspend disbelief over a futuristic, advanced, high tech, invisible aircraft in a sensorless world than it is so do so over something as mountainously documented as army marching rates in a pre-motorized era! :-)
Whoops…that’s @16!
One thing to keep in mind. 40 miles per day is being bandied about as possible. Will we actually see that being achieved? I doubt it. So those 75k troopers will still be in Siddermark before the CoGA believe possible, just not as soon as Cayleb and Sharley would like. Even if they manage 34 miles per day, that’s just another 10 days longer. If they manage 30 miles per day that’s another 20 days. The important thing is that by marching closer, they reduce the number of ships needed to ferry them over, which means more food and other supplies can continue to go into Siddermark as they come in from Imperial Charisian farms. My gut tells me DW will have them managing 32-34 miles per day and leave the siddermarkian forces in a tough spot as the second wave is delayed.
You all may be missing a key point here. 75k troops in the ICA moving to Siddermark leaves well over 150k of the ICA, where? If that 75 is just the first wave with another 75k in the second wave, that still leaves 100k or so floating about. 30k or so are in Corisande (not including Gahrvai’s forces) and the remaining 60k-70k are on board ships as marines. That’s a lot of troops available for DW type of tactical surprises. As I said, I expect those extra troops with the help of Corisandian troops to hit Dohlar and cut off the southern canal routes feeding the invasion coalition. Alykberg and Dairnyth look like the targets if not Gorath too.
My bad. I used dated numbers for the ICA/ICN marines. There are actually 450k total at this time. So, assuming 150k go into Siddermark in 2 waves, that leaves 300k left. If they plan on sending 3 waves into Siddermark, we are left with 225k. Assuming 25k-30k in Corisande that leave 200k on board ship or deployed elsehwere. That’s still quite a bit of troopers to accompany the ICN a’ roving Dohlar’s way.
The speed of the supply ships also seemed remarkably fast.
@20
I also have trouble thinking that there are even enough ships and supplies to carry the minimum of 75,000*3,000 calories/day (probably more being winter) the army will need and to make it available on the route.
Wheat is 1400 calories/pound. This works out to about 40 tons per day. One galleon carries about 500 tons of cargo, according to encarta. That’s 10 days of bread or so. Might could do it, but I don’t know how the preparation facilities, etc. can actually deliver such amounts to an army actually on the march at a 40 mile a day pace.
@23
DW is using 3 lbs per person per day. Not all wheat, but also canned meats and vegetables. The caloric density is a bit higher for fat and protiens. That totals 4,500 tons per day. This is an order of magnitude lower than you estimate.
Towards the last stages they will need 50-60 cargo ships carrying 1,000 tons each traveling 200 miles per day to manage or as little as 40 ships if they travel 300 miles per day. This makes sense as by that time it may make more sense to ship troops out rather than continue feeding them. Ferry them piecemeal to Rolllings until the entire last wave is complete and then ship them to their final destination as a complete force.
Period armies had to stop, one day in four or five, to bake bread.
Also, nautical supply requires that there be ports at very regular spaces along the trip, and that the harbor be sufficiently free of ice that the food can be landed, not to mention that prolonged bad weather leads to challenges. If your army is trapped in place by a series of blizzards, there are interesting times. Of course, you could send the ships on ahead with some marines to establish depots along the way, so the food is there when the army gets there.
@24 75 000*3 = 225000 pounds is just over 100 tons, but there are also the containers, not to mention the fodder; you might get up to 400 tons a day.
You are right, George. I was doing the entire period rather than simply 1 day. 4,500 tons for 40 days and 6,750 for 60 days total food.
Should have double checked my math. apologies.
@24, 3,000 calories/day/man might be sufficient for a summer march, but I’d guess more like 6,500 calories/day for winter marches in excess of 30 miles/day. I know that petroleum exploration companies working in northern Canada base their food budgets on 6,750 calories/day/man, and those workers have better winter gear than the Charisian marines would have and sleep in heated bunkhouses as well. Food prep is going to be important, too–you’re not going to get anywhere near full efficiency from people working outdoors in winter if all they have available are cold iron rations. That implies that the Navy is going to have to sealift a “cooks and bakers” battalion into place with their supplies about a day’s march ahead of the army vanguard, so that the troops can line up to get hot food before entering bivouac each night, and grab a hot breakfast (or at least a hot beverage with a cold breakfast) before leaving camp each morning. It would take a minimum of two “cooks and bakers” battalions to do the job–one in-place cooking and the other being moved up a day’s march ahead so they can start cooking tomorrow.
I’m not sure how to account for the “accordion effect”. George Nafziger has noted that Napoleonic army corps were limited by the width of the roads such that the corps vanguard had often reached the next night’s bivouac area before the rear-guard got onto the road. During WWI, the various combatant nations set the maximum sizes of their infantry corps at the number of men who could be deployed from line of march to line of battle in one day–about 42K men. Certainly the short winter days at high latitudes are going to limit the time the men can actually spend marching each day.
Ken, I make no caloric assumptions. I only gave weight of food DW is using as reqired per day. Double that weight per day and that’s still 300 or so tons per day. 1 galleon can carry that each day and at most they need 12 galleons traveling 100 miles per day.
Okay, so
A. Some of the men are already moving.
B. The ships don’t have to meet troops at every stopping point. All they have to do is go on ahead and leave depots/supply dumps, which can be guarded by detachments from those westernmost garrisons until the bulk of the troop arrives. For that matter, thos e personnel could also be setting up the encampments, so that when the troops arrive, they have little to do but eat and go to sleep.
C> What I am really wondering about is whether the “second group” of ships might not as well head for Zion. 30-45K well armed Charisian troops popping in for tea could certainly be a little surprise for Clyntahn. Would they have room at the Temple for morning vespers? :)
I’m thinking the assault shuttle and the assault rifles are for the Temple.
On the other hand the CoGA troops are also moving into unfamiliar territory – a land devoid of food reserves due to the CoGA’s own actions.
It wouldn’t surprise me to discover that they are falling into the same trap the Japanese fell into in the Pacific – no food reserves to take, as the locals don’t store food (or have any left to steal). Your troops then starve because you can’t resupply, them therefore you lose. The Germans had the same problem (but with a slightly better supply situation) in Russia due to the scorched earth policies of the Russian army (which also did Napoleon in).
Logistics rates right up with strategy and tactics if you want to win wars, not just battles.
Proposed schedule: a) end of day – 1.5 hours for meal and equipment repair.
b) night – 10 hours for sleep and two hours of guard duty.
c) dawn – 1 hour for meal and formation.
d) day – 13 hours at three miles over 55 minutes and 5 minute rest.
e) lunch – 1 hour or less.
totals an average of 39+ miles each day of 26.5 hours.
Troops in good condition should be able to maintain four miles per hour on good roads. I have done a five mile PT run in the am and a 15 mile ruck march in three hours in the pm, using up four hours of a 24 hour day. Then we repeated it the next day. The colonel said it was a confidence building exercise, to show us what we could do.
I remember some WWI references to the ‘Gulashkanone’, the horse drawn mobile field kitchen. It might be an Austrian reference, because of the ‘Gulash’. It could cook a hot meal during the march. Have the Charisians invented the Gulashkanone yet?
How many days can the troops keep on marching at 40 miles per day? Not being a very physically active person (ie. I’m plain out of shape), can someone answer that? Is it feasible for them to keep up that routine given the weather conditions and the road conditions (or the lack of it)? And at the end of said march, will they need time to recover before they can engage in combat?
Finally grasped the concept. Eastshare is concentrating the troops AROUND A berg, which will amount to 60,000 to 75,000 and getting them ready to march west. Most of the army on the Eastern side of Chisholm are NOT being marched across the whole country. DUH
@33
Forgot about the somewhat longer day! Makes for a 10% increment! That said, I see the infrastructure problem as the real problem: Transporting tents, cooks, and materiel ahead of the column to serve the column and then leapfrogging said infrastructure ahead again daily seems a pretty monumental logistical task to me in the absence of modern lift capacity.
Further to #37:
Remember in the Dahak subplot which explored essentially the same ideas as this Safehold series, modern transport was actually used to preplace supplies for the troops to consume after a long flanking march through a swamp.
All in all, this nightmare march may be very good training for what Cayleb will ask superman to do in Siddermark. I am still in a quandry about where Kynt will be sent: south to Thesmar or north to Icewind Province. Which way will he go?
@37
They have wagons and beasts of burden. The supplies provided by ship in the Raven Lord’s lands will provide fodder for the animals. The supplies on the wagons will contain tents, food for during the day’s march and similar necessities. Each soldier will likely carry his weapons and a light pack. I would guess that for any march through Chisholm the local populace will provide food at designated locations. There will be pleanty of lead time for Chisholmian locals to set up in advance because everyone will know the route the ICA will take.
@33
I forgot about the extended day. I think they can make 40 miles more often than not after all.
@35
Andy, Romans managed 30 miles a day in 24 hours and resting 1 day in 7 to bake bread. No need to bake bread for the ICA, but there will be injuries along the way. I suspect that those with lighter injuries will help the supply ships set up and guard the food drops until they recover a bit. That might be a way to provide recovery time for those that need it. There will be some that do.
40 mile marches are credible for a few days, but not what is being described here. I seem to recall a reference to a German unit in WW2 that did this fora week, but it was iirc not in good working order afterward. Also, anyone who has even a mild injury, say a sprained ankle due to bad roads, will never catch up, and will have personal supply problems. The Roman march was a very disciplined distance, rather shorter than described here.
@39 Thanks PeterZ. I suppose the weather and road conditions will be the other factors influencing the march. Then again, its not like the plot will be changed even if everyone decided that its not possible as the book has probably gone to the printers hahaha
@40 George, I recall in March to the Sea, Ringo and DW had the infantry hang on to the pack animals as they marched. Do you suppose that DW has something like that planned? I just don’t believe that he would so push the realities around the non-tech aspects of a story. Perhaps there are enough wagons for 20%-25% of the troopers to ride for an hour. That means there is a 3 or 4 hour march every 4 or 5 hours.
In any case, I think Andy@41 is right. I doubt DW will be clumsy about it but those troopers will be making that 40 miles a day or close to it.
I am a former commander of a light infantry company, but we would have an annual (Battalion) movement based on the 85 march of the 9th Infantry in the Boxer Rebellion. Load out is company load out including squad and unit equipment. My RTO’s, gunners, mortarmen and some others carried 100+ pounds and others were carrying at least 65 pounds of gear. We did it in four days not three and the soldiers were in “reasonable” shape at the end of the movement. 9th INF Regiment did it in three days and went right into the fight at the end of the movement in July 1900.
I could see where veteran troops who were only carrying their basic loads (weapons, crew gear and personal effects) could move very quickly if their logistics were sent ahead of them and camps were prepared ahead of them. The Roman standard was 20 Romans miles (about 18 modern miles) in five hours for an army carrying all supplies, etc and setting up camp. There are stories of much faster movement by the legions. C. Claudius Nero marches some 250 miles in seven days to reinforce M. Livius Salinator at Metaurus, which is just under 36 miles a day with full gear and ready to fight. Just my thoughts and I trust DW will do it well enough for me to enjoy the story and not get too rapped up in the fine details.
@43 However, the proposal here is for two months steady, somewhat faster, for that.
Readers may wish to consider the March of the Saxon Army between its 1066 battles.
Henry V did 260 miles in 2.4 weeks before Agincourt with mainly light forces–at least the dismounted forces, the archers, were light.
@43…Yes, I think the key is support along the way (which is where I see the difficulties). If the soldiers are passed from station to station with light loads a lot is possible. I just don’t see that as really feasible.
The march from Ahylsberg across the Raven Lands is almost entirely coast hugging, so a lightly weighed down army, carrying two to three days rations per leg, resupplied from the sea (since the ships could sail to likely stopping points, easily unload the next packet of supplies in plenty of time for troop arrival), pick up the lame and halt to haul to the next stop & repair stuff as it breaks could make for a very fast transit.
Maybe DW has thought about this a little longer than the rest of us.
It’s a shame that the EoC hasn’t invented steam engines yet. Between steam locomotives and steam ships, they’d crucify the AoG. And Merlin has already shown that steam power doesn’t trigger the Rakurai.
@47 Robert, I thought Father Paityr already approved it in the last book. Dollars-to-donuts someone had an inspiration already. I bet a Hausmyn foreman or some-such got the idea after a BS sesssion on the floor with Mr. Hausmyn himself. Funny how the old man sparks these sorts of inspirations, eh?
PeterZ, Father Paityr had “unofficially” approved it in the last book but wanted to lay the ground-work for the official approval.
The proof of concept for steam power conversation with Father Paityr happened in July 895. I wouldn’t expect to see steam engines until at the earliest in July 896. Even working from a set of plans from OWL, it would take that long to manufacture the parts for a recipricating single expansion steam engine.