BY HERESIES DISTRESSED – snippet 13:
A peculiar little tingle danced somewhere deep inside her at the thought. It was as if in that moment she had finally allowed herself to realize — or, at least, to admit — something she’d refused to face directly from the moment Cayleb’s proposal of matrimony arrived in Cherayth. Fear. Fear that the man who’d won those smashing victories, who’d threatened to sink every one of the Earl of Thirsk’s ships, without quarter or mercy, unless his surrender terms were accepted, must be as hard as his reputation. As cold as the sword at his side. Fear that her daughter had gone to wed a man as merciless, in his own way, as the kraken which was the emblem of his house. It wasn’t that she’d feared Cayleb might be evil, the monster of depravity depicted in the Group of Four’s propaganda. But a man need not be evil to be cold. To recognize all of the ways in which political calculation must trump mere human emotions when the prize was the life or death of entire kingdoms, and to act accordingly.
But she wasn’t seeing that man. Oh, she had no doubt that a man with that chin, those eyes which had seen too much blood and death already for a man of twice his years, could be just as hard and cold as any steel blade. Whatever else he might be, Cayleb Ahrmahk was no weakling, no captive to indecision or to vacillation. Yet who she was seeing in this moment was the young man — the husband — Sharleyan’s letters had described. Not the emperor. Not the invincible admiral, or merciless dictator of terms, or leader of schism against God’s Church, but her daughter’s husband.
Oh my God, a quiet voice said softly, almost prayerfully, in the back of her mind. Sharley wasn’t just trying to reassure me. She was telling me the truth. She truly loves him . . . and maybe even more importantly, he truly loves her.
Alahnah Tayt had watched her daughter sacrifice too much already on the altar of responsibility, give too much to the weight of the crown she had been forced to assume when other girls were still playing with dolls, surrender too many of the joys which should have been hers. Sharleyan had never complained, never wasted effort on self-pity or admitted she missed those things, yet Alahnah had missed them for her. In the lonely watches of the night, she had prayed for her daughter’s happiness, begged God to give her some small scrap of personal love and joy as partial compensation for all of the cold, demanding prestige, power, and wealth of her queenship. Surely God could not have condemned her to a bitter, cold marriage after all He had already demanded of her! Yet that was exactly what Alahnah had feared . . . and if Sharleyan had never admitted it, her mother had known it was what she feared, as well.
Now, for just an instant, the queen mother’s lips trembled, and then — to her astonished embarrassment — she burst into totally unanticipated tears. Green Mountain rose quickly, stepping urgently around to her, going to one knee beside her chair and taking her right hand in both of his, and she heard his soft, urgent questions. Heard him asking her why she wept. But she couldn’t answer him. She could only stare down the length of the table at the young man who had so unexpectedly, without saying a single word, told her that her daughter had found the one thing in the world her mother had most feared she would never know.
* * * * * * * * * *
Cayleb Ahrmahk watched Queen Mother Alahnah weep, listened to Green Mountain speaking softly and urgently to her. He’d been as surprised as Sharleyan’s first councilor by the queen mother’s tears, but only for a moment. Only until he’d recognized the way her eyes clung to him, even through her tears, and recognized that the one thing in which she did not weep was sorrow.
He patted his mouth with his napkin, laid the snowy linen aside, and pushed back his own chair. At his express request, he, Alahnah, and Green Mountain were dining privately. Even the servants had withdrawn, waiting to be summoned by the ringing of Queen Mother Alahnah’s bell if they were needed. Even Merlin Athrawes stood outside the private dining chamber’s door, guarding the privacy of all its occupants, and now Cayleb went to one knee at the other side of Alahnah’s chair. He took her free hand in his own, raised it to his lips and kissed its back gently, then looked up at her — or, rather, across, for he was as tall kneeling as she was sitting.
“Your Grace,” he murmured, “I feared the same thing myself, in many ways.”
“‘Feared,’ Your Majesty?” Alahnah repeated, and he nodded, then reached up with his left hand. A gentle thumb brushed tears from her cheek, and he smiled softly, almost sadly.
“You feared your daughter had been caught in a trap,” he told her. “You were afraid of a loveless marriage of state, a thing of cold calculation and ambition. From what Sharleyan’s told me, I believe you recognized the reasons for that calculation, understood the necessity behind the ambition, but still, you feared them. As did I. I had reports of your daughter, descriptions. I knew her history. But I didn’t know her, and I was afraid — so afraid — that if she accepted my proposal, I would be condemning both of us to a necessary but loveless union. That like so many other princes and princesses, kings and queens, we would be forced to sacrifice our own hopes of happiness on the altar of duty to our crowns.
“Sharleyan changed that for me. She changed it by being someone I could love, and someone who could love me. By being as brave, as warm and loving, as she was intelligent. As compassionate as she was pragmatic. As gentle as she could be ruthless at need. I would have proposed this marriage no matter what her character might have been, and I would have wed her with all honor, even if there’d been no love at all between us, just as she would have wed me. But God was good to us. We had no need to make that choice, because we truly do love one another. I wish, more than I could ever possibly say, that she were here to tell you that herself. She can’t be. God, in His mercy, may have spared us from a cold, unfeeling marriage, yet our other duties, our other responsibilities, remain. And it would be impossible for Sharleyan, as I know I need not tell you, to leave those responsibilities unmet, those duties undone. You — and Baron Green Mountain — taught her that, just as my father taught me, and neither of us will be unworthy of our teachers.”
“I know,” Alahnah half-whispered. “I know, Your Majesty, truly. And I see now that Sharley’s letters told me nothing but the simple truth when I feared she was trying desperately to offer me false comfort. Forgive me, Your Majesty, but I half-suspected — feared, at least — that the true reason she hadn’t accompanied you home to Cherayth was that it was a loveless marriage and you feared I might realize that when I finally saw the two of you together.”
Hurray marriage.
Wonderful!
Nice scene. It is harder I think in books like these to include small human scenes like this one. Yet they make the characters more lifelike.
Regarding #3 – Exactly. Nicely put, Karina.
Ah, Holy Matrimony! It sounds, and read, so attractive.
So short…..want more!!!hehe
Webber never forgets the basics-if you don’t care about the characters, it doesn’t matter how well a book is plotted or written. That’s why he can bend or flat ignore all the ‘rules’.
Truthfully, I would be more comfortable if this scene had come slowly, after many events, and through some conflict. A mrriage that begins as a state marriage can deepen into a fond and trusting relationship, but rarely is trust so esily given, especially among persons with the history these two have. Most love affairs have a quotient of aggravation. For example, Sharleyan can clearly be stubborn as winter is long, yet we have never seen it in their relationship. A few warts make the story more believable, and the final result more satisfying.
J
Actually, in this case, it makes sense to me. Cayleb already had a good impression of Sharleyan from someone he trusted (Merlin), and thus he was willing to extend trust to her. And since it’s always possible to tell if someone’s playing you false (unless they’re extremely practiced as a deceiver), Sharleyan quickly grew to trust him back. I’m sure there will be plenty of warts in their relationship, but there’s no reason to start manufacturing quarrels between the two of them (especially not since it’s only been a few months since they first met). This isn’t Taming of the Shrew, after all.
In other words, it’s perfectly believable to me. Maybe not the most realistic situation, but seeing as this is a story set over a thousand years in the future, on a planet many light-years from Earth, it doesn’t have to be hugely realistic.
And of course, there’s that one potential argument between the Happy Couple lurking in the background just itching to spoil the whole thing: Merlin’s Secret.
I don’t know what you guys are talking about. I don’t know and don’t care about these characters – at this point they are cardboard cutouts. This is the first time that we’ve heard anything about the queen mother (that I remember at least). We know basically nothing about Green Mountain. And the rest of this snippet is just more standard praise of Cayleb that goes nowhere.
Yeah, reading how *that* little spat is going to blow up will be…interesting.
I think I’ll stop checking on these for a month or two and then come back and read them in one sitting. These little dribblets every other day that don’t really amount to much progress in what looks to be shaping up to a long book with all these little warm fuzzy fillers are killing me. I read Webber because I like the action with which he packs his tales. I want to know what happens when the news of Charis’s hanging of those inquisitors hits Zion. Real bad.
We’re still in the warm up and place setting stage of this book. For anyone who decides to read this book first instead of the other two, this book is basically defining Cayleb’s character for the newbies.
And at least it beats having a character description that’s copied and pasted wholesale from book to book. There’s a was a kid’s series that I read in my youth that did that and just… bleah! ;)
Erm, I meant this PART of the book is defining Cayleb’s character for newbies.
Is their anyway for me to edit my posts after the fact?
Cayleb and Sharleyan are both described quite a bit more in the first two books, Elim. At least, that’s what I’m basing most of my info and suppositions on.
DW needs to reread his earlier work to remind himself how he became so popular. His last few books have been almost no action!!!BORING
Perhaps, Jason, you should instead. How much action did OBS have until the final climatic battle with the Q-ship? Not much. A bomb here, a few other scenes there, and that’s about it. Or what about THotQ? Nope. A bit more, maybe the second half of the book had about 50% action, but that’s about it. TSVW? 15% “pure action” at best, maybe less. Field of Dishonor? Aside from one assassination attempt, one assault, and two scenes on the dueling grounds, just about nada. I could go on. FIE, HAE, IEH, EOH, AOV, etc etc etc… every last one of them started slow from the “pure action” standpoint, with a few flashes here and there, and then usually a big climax at the end. Some didn’t even have that, but just a bit of action here and there without a major climatic battle. The sole exception I can think of would be AAC, and even that wasn’t more than about 50% “pure action”. Even SoSag was only about 30%.
Weber is not popular because he writes action packed novels with nothing but constant violence and mayhem. There are authors like that and I usually find their work pure drivel not worth using as toilet paper. About the only exception I can think of off the top of my head would be Travis Taylor, and even he I’ve gotten frustrated with from time to time because his characters usually are shallow cardboard cutouts. Or at least more so than Weber’s.
No, Weber is popular because he writes very detailed, enjoyable, interesting characters and story-lines that leave you hanging for more.
RH
Another in-law relationship snippet on Friday. Probably a switch over to the Corisande side on Monday if not finishing this chapter.
RH This series is basically a longer, slower copy of the 4th? book of the Dahak series. Tech controlled by Church, Advanced being helping the Good guys overthrow the Evil Church, Evil aliens going to destroy mankind. Has DW ever finished a series?? Dahak ..Nope March to the stars…Nope War Gods Own….Nope etc etc etc. Just saying
Oh yeah reread all Honor books recently plenty of action in early books POV from different characters wasnt overkill kept with Core group this series has started jumping all over to cardboard characters. BSRA what 5% action SOS not much BHD none so far
In 15 or so pages, there’s no action? Can I get a WAAAAH from the crowd? Thank you. You’d be right at home in ancient Israel. Waaah we’re hungry! Waaah we’re thirsty! Waaaah we don’t like manna! Waaah we want meat! Waaaah we want leeks and onions! My two year old nephew has more emotional control than you display. Well, maybe not quite….
And if you call this POV overkill then you obviously don’t have any interest in anything but blood guts and gore. In which case may I suggest you seek out another author to read? Because Weber is obviously not for you.
Oh and if you’re actually still reading, it was the third book of the Dahak series that you’re trying to compare this too. There is no fourth book. And at some of the most basic levels they are vaguely similar, but there are one HELL of a lot of stories that could be written within that general framework.
As for finishing a series, what in the world does that have to do with anything? Aside from giving you something else to bang your sippy cup over, at least…
RH
Good grief, Jason. Can you find something more petty to gripe about? I mean, seriously. “Weber’s never finished a series!”
First off, this is very loosely based off of the third (not fourth) book in the Dahak series, Heirs of Empire. The only similarities are the fact that an established Church is restricting technology, which the protagonists must topple. Oh, and the main protagonists (or protagonist, singular, here) have super powers. So what? The circumstances are almost completely different other than that. I don’t see Merlin “magically” providing Charis with thousands of rifles per day. I don’t see Charis being able to march in and practically squash the Church within a year. Oh, and I don’t see this being resolved by Merlin building a hypercom to call daddy to come pick him up. *rolls eyes*
Honestly, if all you’re getting out of this is a “longer, slower copy” of HoE, I question whether you’re actually reading the same snippets and the same books I am.
As far as finishing series goes, I think it would be more accurate to say that Weber wants to keep his options open in case he decides to go back and write another book in the series. But in at least two of the series you mentioned (Dahak and March), they’re close enough to concluded to be an ending in and of themselves. The only way Weber would be able to write another Dahak book would be to skip ahead a few hundred years until the next Achuultani invasion (or when the Empire invades them). And it wouldn’t really be the same, since by that time, the Empire will have enough firepower to pretty much crush whatever the Achuultani manage to build up. The theme of the series would have to change too much for it to be a continuation.
And March was about getting Prince Roger home. He’s home. It’s only “not finished” in the sense that Weber let the bad guys get away so he could maybe write another book or two, but the theme of the series is done with.
Sorry that this series doesn’t read like an action movie, but some of us enjoy books and series which take time to build up, without having a battle or a fight every few dozen pages. I mean, when you get right down to it, battles are only interesting when the outcome is in doubt. I’d rather let Weber set things up for more interesting battles than have him write in random pointless fights merely to inject “action” into the story.
It’s always interesting to see the range of comments about scenes like this.
Basically, I agree with Elim in comment 11. These people aren’t real characters. This purple prose is almost painful to skim through, much less to read.
RH is correct that great writing will engage your emotions and that nothing but action is just mechanistic — but for it to work you have to actually be able to do that characterization and emotional scenes well! And, I’m sorry to say, Weber can not. He’s never been able to do so. It’s just not what he’s good at.
This long monologue could have come from any Weber character. There is nothing that particularly speaks to the voice and experience of Alahnah.
Compare her with a great character, like Elizabeth Bennett. Or Vlad Taltosh. Or Fawn Bluefield. Or Shan Yos’Galen. They have voices of their own, and everything they say sounds like like something you know they must say because of who they are. This stuff just sounds like exposition used to assure us that Cayleb is a good man who loves his wife. It’s supposed to make us care about these characters, but it’s just not successful.
At least, it’s not successful with me.
Jason
it is the third book.
And yes DW does seem to have a problem finishing series. One point to consider though is that (for better or worse) universes never really end. Even if Honor’s series ends the Honorverse will not. And The War Gods Own is a series that could be open ended, ie eternal conflict between light and dark gods, though there probably ought to be at least one book fighting each of the dark gods :)
Well I would have a hard time seeing Cordellia Ransome (or several other Peeps, or even Alistair McKeon or most of the men in the Honorverse) in this scene, Mike, but aside from that I suppose you have a point. It does work for me, mostly at least, so I don’t really agree, but I can see where you’re coming from.
RH
It works for me as well. Besides, I would say the real question is whether a series like this needs every important character to “speak with their own voice”. Just to list a few of the major characters which do so a bit more clearly, there’s Merlin, Cayleb, Clyntahn and the other members of the Group of Four, Narhman, Hektor, Hektor’s daughter, Maikel, and Paityr. If you count deceased characters, you’d have to include Haahrld and Dynnys. (Please forgive any spelling errors, I still haven’t gotten the hang of how the name spelling works in this series)
Anyway, that’s what, thirteen or so? And I didn’t even list everyone I could have, so it could easily be more. It doesn’t really bother me if some of the supporting cast speak with more of the author’s voice than with their own.
Who knows what is good or bad?
Re: Unfinished series. Weber states, in the foreword to the trade edition of OoS, that he intends to write “at least 7 more novels … in Bahzell’s universe” BUT, since they don’t sell as well, he has to work them in around more popular (and renumerative) projects. I infer that Baen would prefer more Honor books rather than Bahzell and he has to talk them into letting him do these also.
“I don’t know what you guys are talking about. I don’t know and don’t care about these characters – at this point they are cardboard cutouts. This is the first time that we’ve heard anything about the queen mother (that I remember at least). We know basically nothing about Green Mountain. And the rest of this snippet is just more standard praise of Cayleb that goes nowhere.”
Yeah, well, who reads Weber for first rate character writing? How many devoted Weber fans actually read authors who take care to shape the descriptions and exposition about characters to let the reader develop their own opinions rather than the author flatly telling you what you are supposed to think. The most irritating part of 1632 is Flint hammering the reader over the head over and over and over and over and over…., so Weber’s not the only one, but he’s consistent.
If you really want bad character writing, read Sword Brother. I think I’ve read better fanfic.
“shape the descriptions and exposition”
I meant to include dialog, both internal and external. Very important for building a character. And the best dialog always makes the deepest impression.
The problem is that it takes time to do all that, and Weber wants to pump out as many books as possible as quickly as possible.
It really does take longer to write a shorter book, particularly with speech recognition. If you’re a good storyteller, who can keep the plot straight in your head, you can really crank it out. It just won’t be better than good from most other standards of fiction writing, because that takes going back and sweating over your words.
But hey, if your readers are willing to put up with it or don’t know better, only your own pride in your work could possibly compel you to harm yourself financially when there’s more books to crank out.
Actually, MarkR, I’d say the most irritating thing about the 1632 universe is the smug, self-righteous attitude with which Flint seems to try to bash you over the head with his idea of how things ought to be. Especially so in areas I don’t happen to agree with him. His biases show forth in 1632 like 2000-watt flashing red neon signs on half-second timers. Gets quite annoying fast. I thought he did a much better job with Cahat. And with Prince Roger for that matter.
Guess I should apologize for dissing him on his own site, but oh well. I’m looking forward his next CoS book and any future Roger book should it ever arrive, but I’ll likely never buy another 1632 book. I know there are tons of people out there who love that series. And I’m happy for him that he’s making money and that he’s got satisfied customers. I rather wish I could be one of them. But I can’t. Oh well.
I would agree that there is more internal dialog and room for personal interpretation of things in the Honorverse. On the other hand, the relative merits of free-markets vs. communism are still not settled (officially, at least, though most adherents to one or the other would refuse to admit there are any merits whatsoever to the other) on Earth so there is lots of room for debate and comparison and exposition. Is there really anybody among Weber’s likely audience who actually beleives an anti-technology theocracy is an ideal form of government? If so, there aren’t many.
RH
RH, you should read 1633 and 1634. They were co-authored by Weber, and aren’t nearly as politically one-dimensional.
On-topic, the only thing that bothers me at all about the whole Chisholm scene is the greater public reaction. Charisians have a believable set of circumstances and mindset to embrace schism; I haven’t seen any similar thing with Chisholm. I’d expect much greater skepticism on the part of the public about defying Gods Church.
I did, Michael. I suppose they were better. Maybe that’s why I kept reading as long as I did before I finally gave up on the series.
Back on topic as well, I agree on the public reaction, at least in theory. I’m trying to wrap my brain around the way a person who grew up in a feudal society would think and I can’t fully do so, but I have a decent imagination at least and so I can at least figure out some. It’s obvious that while both Charis and Chisholm have commoners who are decidedly “uppity” by the standards of the rest of the world, they also still have strong faith in their rulers as well. Unless they do something to tick them off (like conquer them and then tax them harshly ala Hektor and Zebediah) it seems (so far at least) that most people are rather satisfied with their rulership and willing to follow where they lead.
It’s hard for me to understand the idea of liking a leader so much that you decide whatever they do must be OK just because you believe in them. Of course, come to think of it, maybe I don’t need to be thinking like a feudal society, maybe I just need to be trying to think like a modern-day political ideologue. There are people (mostly at the extreme R&L, though not necessarily) in our own society who so worship a particular political figure that they think that person can do no wrong. I think they are the exception rather than the rule but the last few decades of political nastiness certainly prove that they are there.
And then there are others who don’t care what their leaders do so long as it doesn’t directly and immediately affect them personally. Again we have people like this today, or have examples of them in recent history. The saying “First they came for the [x], but I didn’t speak out, because I wasn’t a [x]” (in all its variants) didn’t become so well known for nothing. Or people who have no problems raising the tax rate on some activity they don’t participate in (or just somebody else) so long as they personally aren’t affected (of course, they only THINK they aren’t affected, but that’s a whole nother GIANT can of worms…).
And then of course there are those who do know what’s going on and do care but simply agree with it (or at least what they know of it).
I think those three factors at least partially explain why so little backlash has been seen yet. But I also suspect some extra backlash is coming soon. We didn’t get treated to that scene with Halcom and the other guy just to find a way to kill more trees… :)
RH
Robert, are you getting Weber and Flint confused? The only reference to Cahak I found was in the Honorverse, and Prince Roger was definitely a Weber creation too (assuming you’re referring to the March series. If it’s some other Prince Roger, then I don’t know what you’re talking about).
RH@34. I think that the attitudes of both Father Styvyn in Delfahrak and Father Payter in Telesberg are the answer. Both think that people are incapable of doing the right thing. Father Payter may be less extreme about his beliefs and may change them. The church’s hierarchy is based on the elite telling the unwashed what to think. After centuries of some elite so-and-so telling them what to do, the church now wants these folk to reject the voice of authority? Reject a voice that actually makes sense and has proven time and again it cares about them? Hardly.
I can see this logic working its way through most Chisholm minds. The vicars treat their serfs worse than the Kings and Queens of Charis and Chisholm have ever considered treating them. The current Queen of Chisholm resides in a soft spot in the hearts of her subjects. She has persevered against long odds to make Chisholm a decent place to live. The church has backed their biggest threat in attacking a friendly neighbor and forced them to help in the attack. Worse the church was sneaky about it, which suggests that they really didn’t have doctrinal issues with Charis. Its a real sticky wicket. Who is right? I don’t know, but I will back the plucky Queen I know vs. the sneaky Vicar I don’t.
If I am wrong, well God and the Archangels KNOW I am a good person trying his/her best. I do trust Them to make the right decision.
PZ
I think he means the Havenite spy from Crown Of Slaves. Cachat?
Pastaaaaa…..
As for 1632, my worse irritation was that Flint was even worse than Weber in telling the reader what the reader was supposed to think about a character. Ew, Ah, look how great my character is.
Meanwhile, Simpson was the thinnest of cardboard figures because Flint “couldn’t spare the pages”. I’ve seen Bujold put more life into a character in a few pages than Flint put into Simpson for the entire book, but he couldn’t spare the pages. Fortunately, Simpson has achieved considerably more dimension in subsequent books, starting with the Weber collaboration 1633.
What an amazing blog. Go on posting, and I am going to be here again next time. Thank you